Saturday, November 05, 2016

'nother pissin match

Eric Steinberg Nope. First: anyone who expects a nuanced, thoughtful answer from college kids fresh out of high school is an idiot. Second: make sure you poison your lede with anti-"liberal" bias. Third, and most importantly- anonymous, secret ballots are essential to free and fair elections. Would anyone prefer that, when and if the Gestapo are somehow voted in, they have a database that includes your name and address, to make it easier for them to come and kill you for having voted the wrong way? I didn't think so. The fact is that voter I.D. laws are explicitly designed to disenfranchise the poor and other marginalized people, who overwhelmingly vote Democratic. The infinitesimal amount of attempted voter fraud in this country is committed mostly by conservatards, and is discovered and prosecuted in nearly every case.
LikeReply6Yesterday at 2:44pmEdited
Michael Hosea Showing ID doesn't have anything at all to do with a ballot being "secret". Here in Massachusetts you have to say who you are. They'll look you up in the book, cross your name off, and hand you a ballot. Then you fill out your ballot in a private "booth". Then there's a check-out where are holding your ballot and they look your name up in another copy of the book. Once they find it and cross off your name, you deposit your own ballot in the reader (nobody else touches it). If an ID were required in Massachusetts, it would presumably be used during the two look-ups. This wouldn't provide any means of cross-referencing ballots in the reader to particular voters. There's no sequencing information in the book.
Marc MacYoung Here's something that maybe you can explain to me.

Some years ago I began to notice a disturbing trend among college students. To understand its significance takes a side trip.

I'm an expert in my field. I work with other experts. Even though there's commonality, there's different terminology, emphasis and descriptions on what is very much a ... soft science, if not subject. These differences are really, really obvious when we get together to socialize, talk shop, squabble, bust each others balls and peer reviewing ideas.

What I began to notice coming from college students wasn't just a disturbing uniformity of thought, but what could be called the exact same chorus. Same words, same tone, same pitch, same cadence. It went beyond rhetoric to damn near verbatim -- ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

Now maybe college students are -- as you are implying -- stupid and immature. But call me suspicious, but I don't think the people who are teaching them to sing that chorus are.
Dennis Vallejo Hey Eric maybe you can explain to me how I'm being disenfranchised by having to show my id. I use my id on an almost daily basis, not just my license but my personal id badge to punch in and out of work. I also had to verify my identity and criminal hi...See More
LikeReply3Yesterday at 4:53pmEdited
Josh Kruschke Proving who you are to get a ballot is not the fucking same as them knowing how you voted.

Do you have a source to back up your claim that it's Repubs more than Dems?
Stephen W. Browne Eric Steinberg, from "secret ballots are essential to free and fair elections" you were making quite a lot of sense up to "The fact is that voter ID laws... etc."
Speculation about motive is just that, speculation. Because 1) motive resides in people's heads, and 2) it is what people are most likely to lie about, even or especially to themselves.
So, what would you suggest that would both allay suspicions on the right that elections are being buggered by ineligible and fraudulent voting, and suspicions on the left that elections are being buggered by minority voter suppression?
LikeReply122 hrs
Eric Steinberg to Stephen W. Browne: Republican operatives have been recorded, on tape, clearly saying that the explicit purpose of these laws is to keep black people from the polls. This was a major news item a few months ago; I'll have a cite for you shortly. To Josh Kruschke: requiring ID establishes a link, whereas before there was none- and that was by design. To Dennis Vallejo: you've misread my statement, but you make a good point- the Iraqi system is actually a pretty good way of ensuring that nobody votes twice without tying anyone's identity to a particular ballot, which could be used for reprisals. Michael Hosea, it's a very easy matter to use data mining techniques to establish a causal link. Marc MacYoung, most people, not just young folks, are conformist etc. as you well know. Given the homogeneity of our culture these days, it doesn't surprise me at all that you hear the exact same verbiage from coast to fact, the disappearance of local vernacular and accent is well documented.
LikeReply18 hrs
Eric Steinberg But that's all academic. "Voter fraud" is a major spook for those on the right, because right-wing pundits have used it to keep their audiences afraid of brown people. The Federal elections commission, and other government entities, have done exhaustive studies about the prevalence of it, and they've invariably come up with bupkis- it just doesn't happen like Fox News says it does. Is the FEC a tool of the left? If you think so, then I don't really have much to say to you... because you're divorced from reality. Either you accept that the. Federal Government is impartial or you don't (and of course I recognize that people and policies always come with agendas.... I mean in the aggregate).
LikeReply18 hrs
Michael Hosea Eric Steinberg We're talking about an existing system in a strongly liberal state. It would not be materially altered by requiring ID In lieu of verbal identification. More precisely, requiring ID would add exactly zero information to mine. Never heard any liberals here in Massachusetts saying they had a problem with the way it works now. Not saying I'm particularly worried about voter fraud, but let's try to keep it rational. I'm legal guardian to an adult, and I had to take them to get a state issued ID or they wouldn't have one. It was a hassle, but I did it because it was important for other reasons. Point is, though, that it was an obstacle. Personally, I think that's the only argument against requiring state issued ID that makes a damned bit of sense.
LikeReply11 hrsEdited
Josh Kruschke Eric Steinberg

The right wants you to be afraid of brown people by accusing the left of using voter fraud?...See More
LikeReply11 hrs
Josh Kruschke Eric Steinberg

The Left likes to say we should be more like Australia when it comes to our gun laws, should we also be like them in how they vote?
LikeReply11 hrs
Kevin Menard Dennis Vallejo This is the second post I've seen the same white guys tell you you're a racist. Have they figured out you are technically a minority yet?
LikeReply7 hrsEdited
Dennis Vallejo Minority of a minority Kevin. My mother is from El Salvador and my pops is from Mexico. I was raised protestant (pentecostal, and yes it sucked) in a predominantly Catholic culture.
LikeReply6 hrs
Dennis Vallejo I wonder how shocked this cat is going to be when he finds out my Mexican father loved Reagan and Nixon. My pops also hates Obama, so does my mother. I'm pretty conservative/ liberterian leaning.
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Kevin Menard Anyone who has paid attention to the history of public health, environmentalism, GMO foods, etc knew this, Josh.
LikeReply3 hrs
Eric Steinberg Shocked, that somebody has internalized a bunch of right-wing talking points so they can feel superior to poor folk? Not really.....
LikeReply3 hrs
Eric Steinberg Or: shocked that somebody thinks they're making a cogent point by doubling down on anti-liberal (properly: illiberal) idiocy? Uh, negative.
LikeReply3 hrs
Dennis Vallejo Who are you talking about Eric? You can't possibly mean my father, you know the Mexican immigrant that worked since the age of 8, or my mother who left her home country before a civil war broke out.
LikeReply3 hrs
Eric Steinberg No. What's shocking is that anyone thinks it's okay, in America, in 2016, to make it harder for anyone to vote.
LikeReply3 hrs
Eric Steinberg But it's not shocking that they're not really interested in promoting democracy.....
LikeReply3 hrs
Dennis Vallejo So are you then talking about me, I grew up in a poor neighborhood of L.A. English was my second language, I had to learn a new language at the age of 5. It was hard as shit to get proficient in English, guess what I did it. I can also tell you that I grew up poor, I know shocking right? Since I hate the poor, even though I was one.

Keep your racist benevolence to your self. I don't need you to look out for me and mine.

I guess we brown folks should just be the quiet/ meek pets the "progressives" of this country want us to be. You love us until we have a different opinion.

And also have the balls to say who "they" are. Don't hide behind shitty innuendos.

I also voted last week.....I needed to use my drivers license #, I felt the rage and the anger of the mystical white oppressive patriarchy from the ballot. You know, a quick prayer saw me through the endeavor. I guess that makes me a hero.
LikeReply13 hrsEdited
Eric Steinberg whatev. Just don't pretend like you want all Americans to vote- because you don't.
LikeReply2 hrs
Dennis Vallejo Nice one Eric. That really showed me. I personally don't care if people vote. It's pretty obvious you think minorities need your benefaction, is it shocking that I told you to keep your poisoned apple?

I repeat, I don't need you to speak for me and mine, we do not need your advocacy or benevolent racism. We are intelligent, functional human beings that can determine our own course in life without your guidance.

Also, if you are going to insult or accuse me of something please try harder. "Don't pretend like you want all Americans to vote" is pretty sad man, borderline pathetic.
LikeReply2 hrs
Dennis Vallejo Yo Marc MacYoung, what I tell you man, Schrodinger's white man.
LikeReply22 hrs
Kevin Menard It's all for Democracy until the people decide something the Steinberg types don't want. Then it's we need to elite to lead us. See Prop 8 in California.
LikeReply12 hrs
Eric Steinberg "Try harder"? Okay, how's this- the lot of you are completely full of shit, because you claim to support democracy (or Democracy) but you seek to limit who does or doesn't have agency in gov't. Your alleged bonafides- your 'heritage', your job, etc., don't amount to fuck-all, because you have explicitly endorsed a white supremacist point of view. Each of you is un-American, anti-democratic, anti-civil society....each of you, Dennis, Kevin, Josh, Stephen, (Marc? I notice you are careful to avoid commitment, stay above the fray....) whomever else has espoused "voter ID", really just wants the "right kind" of people to vote. And yes, that's racist. And yes, borderline fascist. Dennis, you've got such a massive inferiority complex that you think I'm telling anyone what to do or how to live their lives....I'm not. I want a fair voting system, that lets everyone in America cast a vote. If you think there are masses of non-citizens trying to affect our elections, you are smoking crack. That shit just doesn't happen- for one thing, if you're here 'illegally', how would you find the time, or energy? So, if illegal aliens aren't voting- and they aren't- and citizens aren't committing fraud to vote multiple times- and they aren't, except for a couple of Republicans here and there, caught in the act- then why enact a policy that will make it more difficult for some Americans to use their voices?
LikeReply40 mins
Dennis Vallejo You miss the part where I said I don't care if people vote?

The simple point that using id for voting like you do for everything else is racist. Nice attempt at trying to negate my heritage you prick. I call this the Schrodinger's white man trap, I must hate my skin and my people if I don't agree with my liberal white better.

Let me break it down for you, I don't care about you or anything that you do.
Thanks for calling me a fascist, bet you were salivating at the chance to toss that around at the right opportunity.

Oh, and talking to a Hispanic guy one generation removed (who currently lives in a predominantly Hispanic neighborhood) about illegal aliens is rich. I deal with them everyday, I buy tacos from them every week. You don't know shit about the culture or the people besides the shit pieces on msnbc. Please don't bring them into it this, you obviously know shit-all about them.

Pon esto en google mamon.
LikeReply26 minsEdited
Dennis Vallejo I strongly suggest you read that Huffpo article I posted. It explains your attitude and viewpoint perfectly.
LikeReply24 mins
Eric Steinberg CLEARLY you don't give a shit if people vote. I do- so I'm curious why dipshits like yourself, who say they don't care, want to make it harder for others?
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Dennis Vallejo You lost the argument so you resolve to name calling. Schrodinger's white man trap (we are allies due to me being a minority, that is until I disagree....then we are closeted racists that hate our own kind and everything that is good in life), you are the personification of this phenomenon.

If you are so broke you can't afford to get and id I will mail you the 15 dollars to get one. If one of my friends can't get one I will drive them to the DMV and give them the money to get it. Not a big deal, it does however speak volumes about you that you think darker skin people can't survive without your intervention.
LikeReply6 mins
Eric Steinberg Noap, you lost- and you started the names. I'm sorry you hate your dad so much....maybe you'll get over it someday. In the meantime, why make it harder for anyone to vote? Spite, maybe?
LikeReply1 min

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